I will relish the challenge: Kumble

Only the third spinner after Bishen Singh Bedi and S Venkataraghvan to become the captain of Indian team, Anil Kumble says as a bowler he knows the “subtleties” of the game well and can use that knowledge while leading the country in Test matches.

In an exclusive interview to PTI, Kumble said he is aware of the responsibility associated with the job and captaincy has come at a time in his career when he can “relish the challenge.”

Kumble also feels that the newfound aggression in the young Indian team was always there.

Regarded as a fighter on the field, the 37-year-old sees nothing wrong in the younger lot showing their emotions on the ground.

India’s most successful bowler speaks about the new challenge, his expectations from the team and the forthcoming three-match Test series against Pakistan.

Interview

Q: Nice Diwali gift for you?
A: I think it has come on a nice auspicious day. It is a nice feeling.

Q: Was it a surprise to you?
A: I don’t think it was a surprise. People were discussing about me as a contender. There was lot of discussions happening. Yeah, I mean it was only after actually Sachin pulled out that the likelihood of they (selectors) looking at me as a captain happened.

Q: Do you feel that Test captaincy coming after 17 long years has happened too late towards the fag end of your career?
A: Better late than never. I think it has come at a time when I think I can relish this challenge. I ensure that I go out there and enjoy my cricket and enjoy being captain of India.

Q: Do you think the selectors have gone for a stopgap arrangement?
A: No, I haven’t really sat down and spoken to them. I really don’t know what they have in mind. So it’s a bit too early for me to say anything on that.

Q: Do you hope to continue as captain for the forthcoming Australian tour and also the home series against South Africa early next year?
A: I would like to take one step at a time. So I still have not really sat down with the selectors and found out what exactly they have in mind. But I’m sure that will happen very soon.

Q: You are the 30th captain and third spinner after Bishen Singh Bedi and Venkatraghavan in Indian Test cricket? How does it feel?
A: I think it’s a great challenge for a bowler to be captain of India and it is not looked at very positively in India for some strange reasons. I am happy that the selectors and the people have shown a lot of faith in me and I hope to live up to those expectations. As a bowler I understand the subtleties of the game. Hopefully I would be able to use that knowledge when it comes to captaining.

Q: As a captain what are your expectations from the Indian team now?
A: I don’t think expectations would change as a player or as a captain. We have discussions and people who have played the game for long definitely express their views in a team meeting and I don’t see that changing much. But the expectations would be to ensure that we are consistent. We try and build a team that will be consistent over a period of time.

Q: How do you see this newfound aggression in Team India now? Do you feel this Indian team after their T20 success has transformed?
A: I think we’ve always been aggressive. I don’t think Team India has found any new aggression after T20 triumph. It’s just that there has been a lot of presence on the field. I mean it’s just that the younger lot shows flare and emotions on the field, which is good.

Q: Personally have you set any target now that you have 566 Test wickets, third behind Shane Warne (708) and Muttiah Muralitharan (702)?
A: Absolutely none. I just want to go out and enjoy my game and ensure that I contribute to the team’s success, to whatever I was doing before. I would like to continue that if not better whatever I was doing. It’s important for me to ensure that we win every time we go out, that’s the personal target and team goal.

Q: How do you see this Pakistan team touring India now?
A: They have a good side. They have always done well whenever they have played us and we respect that. I think we have the potential and the team to win. I am hopeful and pretty confident that we will be able to do that.

Q: In Inzamam’s absence, post-retirement, do you see India holding an upperhand?
A: I think Inzy is a great player. It is very difficult to replace a player like him within a matter of couple of matches. But having said that Pakistan still have Md Yousuf and Younus Khan while Misbah-ul-Haq looks pretty good and then they have Shoaib Malik. (Shahid) Afridi and Salman Butt can be dangerous. So they still have a pretty good batting order. It will be an evenly contested series.

Pakistan players refuse to testify at Woolmer’s inquest

One of Jamaica’s top cops said on Wednesday that four members of the Pakistan cricket team have declined to testify at the inquest into the death of their former coach Bob Woolmer.

Mark Shields, Jamaica’s deputy commissioner of police, told coroner Patrick Murphy that former Pakistan captain Inzamam ul-Haq was among those that refused to give testimony.

Apart from Inzamam, who had recently retired from international cricket, along with medium-pacer Rana Naved-ul-Hasan, assistant manager Asad Mustafa and former media manager Pervez Mir refused to travel to Jamaica for the inquest, which began on October 16.

Shields, who made the requests through the Pakistan Cricket Board, told coroner Murphy and the 11 jurors that both players said they were unable to make it.

“Mustafa said he has already given a statement to the police,” Shields added.

“I spoke to Sattar at 5:50 am on Wednesday and he said he was involved in a car accident in May and has not worked since. He said it would be huge inconvenience for him to attend,” said Shields.

Woolmer died hours after he was found unconscious in his Jamaica hotel room on March 18, a day after Pakistan suffered a humiliated defeat to Ireland at the World Cup of cricket.

Stuart Law joins ICL but launch falls flat

The organisers of the breakaway Indian Cricket League finally named their 30 foreign stars yesterday. Stuart Law – who was also confirmed yesterday as Lancashire’s new captain – is the only British-based player not previously linked with the tournament.

But the competence of the ICL was immediately put in doubt as their first statement left off the names of the six team captains – Law, Brian Lara, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Craig McMillan, Chris Cairns and Marvan Atapattu.

As the ICL have held up Lara and Inzamam as their star attractions since the project was first unveiled, this embarrassing omission suggested that the tournament, due to start on Nov 30 at a ground near Chandigarh in northern India, is unlikely to proceed without a few hitches.

Each of the six teams will have five overseas players to supplement the young Indian players. South Africans will be most numerous: they have six representatives of whom four (Andrew Hall, Nicky Boje, Lance Klusener and Johan van der Wath) will play for Northamptonshire next year.

When Kolpak and overseas signings are included, at least half the counties now look likely to have at least one ICL player next season, which could cause problems when the Champions Twenty20 league is staged in October.

All ICL players are expected to be excluded from the Champions Twenty20, which will involve the best two Twenty20 teams from six nations, while their counties have also been threatened with a possible ban.

The England and Wales Cricket Board are uncomfortable about the situation, but it is hard for them to moderate the hawks at the Board of Cricket Control for India when the BCCI hold a 51 per cent stake in the Champions league.

Warne, Murali patch up at trophy unveiling ceremony

After a shrill war of words in which Muttiah Muralitharan called Shane Warne a “miserable man”, the two spin wizards on Thursday patched up at the unveiling ceremony of the Warne-Muralitharan Trophy, describing the entire episode a case of “miscommunication”.

The controversy started after Warne, in his column for a newspaper, suggested that Muralitharan’s action be tested in match conditions, which infuriated the Sri Lankan.

Muralitharan hit back saying that the Australian leg-spinner was “a miserable man” and threatened to snub the Warne during the trophy unveiling ceremony.

“Maybe he just doesn’t want me to pass his record. Why else would he keep saying these things? I will shake his hand (at the ceremony to unveil the trophy) and go straight off the field instead of trying to be friendly,” he had said.

However, the two laughed off the controversy at the function in Hobart today, saying that it was nothing more than a misunderstanding.

“There is no issue at all. I thought he said something about my bowling action and then I said he was a miserable man,” Muralitharan was quoted as saying by ‘The Melbourne Herald Sun’.

“We just talked to each other and patched it up. It was a miscommunication more than anything else,” he added, seeking to put an end to the controversy.

Warne also clarified that he did not mean to target Muralitharan and his comment was a general suggestion, which should be considered to avoid controversies.

“I spoke to Murali about it this morning so I’m pretty happy actually, I’m not that miserable. I’ve got absolutely no issue with Murali and his action or anything like that,” he said.

Keeping future is in safe hands: Gilchrist

NOT long after blowing out the candles on his 36th birthday cake, Adam Gilchrist said cricket’s new breed of hitters had left him in the shade.

That is not to say he is finished.

The man who redefined the role of the wicketkeeper batsman and who was yesterday anointed by his fellow players as Australia’s greatest one-day cricketer, is not quite ready to hand over his bat and gloves, even though he believes the country’s wicketkeeping future is in exceptionally safe hands.

“The way the guys are hitting them these days, I don’t feel like I’m keeping up,” Gilchrist said. “Some of the things I saw in India, some of the shots their young players are playing and the power in the game at that Twenty20 tournament was amazing.

“I definitely feel like I have still got a role to play and still can be very much a feature in one-day cricket, but it’s a bit different. There may have been a time when I was a trailblazer, [but] I think it has surpassed me now. I’m not saying I’m redundant, it’s just the way the game is evolving, and it’s exciting.”

Those who witnessed Gilchrist’s exhilarating 149 from 104 balls in this year’s World Cup final or his 57-ball Test century in last summer’s Ashes, might beg to differ with the Australian vice-captain’s assessment that he has been eclipsed by the likes of India’s dashing one-day captain MS Dohni and his own teammate, Andrew Symonds.

“Oh Gilly is [the biggest], definitely,” Symonds said yesterday. “He hit one in South Africa that went out of Johannesburg.”

It is perhaps because he was a trailblazer that Gilchrist attracted 38 per cent of votes from those who have played one-day cricket for Australia, and for the sheer joy he has brought to the game since Steve Waugh had the foresight to switch him to the top of the order.

“It enabled me to forge my identity at the top of the order and contribute more than just an average of 25 in the middle order and keeping,” he said.

For the record, Gilchrist’s vote went to Ricky Ponting, the only Australian who has scored more ODI runs than his 9222.

As he took a rare moment to contemplate his career, Gilchrist admitted to periods of self-doubt (including during the lead-up to his World Cup triumph), most of which were laughed off by those around him.

“There were a couple of times when I had little runs of outs and didn’t feel like I was contributing as well as I wanted to,” he said. “Other times I’ve had great loyalty from Ricky. The captains I’ve had have continued to encourage me and almost laugh at me if I’ve even hinted that perhaps I’m better moving down [the order]. They’ve almost giggled and said: ‘Don’t be stupid, just get on with it.’ Gilchrist, who has already hinted that this summer might be his last and given thought to playing only Test cricket, said enjoyment of Australia’s regeneration under new coach Tim Nielsen was enough to sustain him, given the record-breaking wicketkeeper-batsman has achieved almost everything, individually and in a team sense.

“I must admit I have probably asked myself that more in the last 12 months than I ever have in my career,” he said.

“I have never been one to write out goals or targets and, in asking that question, there’s no need for me to start that now.”

When he does retire, he feels confident there is enough depth to carry on Australia’s fine wicketkeeping tradition. But he knows better than most that while 30-year-old Brad Haddin would command selection if he were to retire tomorrow, there are others challenging.

Just as Gilchrist moved from NSW to WA to establish himself in first-class cricket, 20-year-old Matthew Wade has tasted early success after moving from Tasmania to Victoria.

And emerging Warriors keeper Luke Ronchi is making great strides, belting a 51-ball ton against Queensland last week.

“I guess that’s a similar challenge he [Haddin] has got now to what I had prior to cementing my place in the one-day side or the Test team is that you just don’t know when that opportunity is going to come,” Gilchrist said. “The wicketkeeping options around the country at the moment are really exciting.”

Pink cricket balls to be used in Australia

PINK cricket balls will be used in a major match for the first time in Australia on January 10.

The match, between the West Australian and Queensland women’s teams, will be a curtain-raiser for a Twenty20 game between Queensland and Tasmania at the Gabba.

Former Test paceman Carl Rackemann endorsed the pink balls, 200 of which have been made by Kookaburra to raise money for cancer research..

English cricket authorities will use a second batch in minor matches to see whether they could replace the white ball in one-day cricket.

Manufacturers have found it almost impossible to develop a white ball that can maintain its colour for 50 overs.

Why BCCI shouldn’t kill the golden goose

An estimated 700 million people all over the world play chess. About 60 million play tennis and women among them constitute less than half that figure. Vishwanathan Anand is not only the reigning world champion in chess he is an all-time great, being one of only three people ever to have crossed the 2,800 ELO rating. Sania Mirza has not yet broken into the top 20 in women’s tennis. By any yardstick, Anand’s sporting achievements are way above anything Sania has done so far. Yet, there is absolutely no doubt that Sania is the bigger brand in India than Anand.

What does all this have to do with the BCCI? Everything. There is a lesson in the Sania-Anand comparison for the worthies who run cricket in India.

Sania is a huge brand because the media has covered the ups and downs of her career so intensively, discussed and analysed her game threadbare, while Anand has much fewer column inches, and certainly much fewer photographs, published on him in newspapers.

The short point – and the lesson for BCCI – is that the media is crucial for adding value to sporting brands. The reams of stuff written about sporting personalities, the large pictures published, the analysis, pre-event build-ups, all go into making icons out of them.

The BCCI seems completely oblivious of this process by which sportspersons become icons and brands. It seems to believe Indian cricketers become folk heroes purely because of its patronage to them. Only such a blinkered perspective can explain its willingness to go the way of Cricket Australia and demand that media should pay for using images of cricketers, since they are the board’s property.

The board is planning to get sponsors for teams playing in the T20 Indian Premier League for crores of rupees. Would these sponsors come on board if they were not confident of their logos being splashed by the media and, in the process, reach audiences of millions? Clearly, the BCCI has not figured that the media adds value not just to the cricketers brand, but also to the amount sponsors are willing to cough up to have their logos displayed by these cricketers.

If the board did its maths it would realize that the money they hope go garner by making photo agencies and the media pay for images of cricketers would be piffling compared to the mega bucks it makes from sponsors. If the media boycotts cricket matches – as it has boycotted the Australia-Sri Lanka series – the sponsors will certainly lose their enthusiasm.

It should be clear that the BCCI gains as much by providing the media free access to its cricketers as the media gains by writing on them. Indeed, if the BCCI’s logic were to be accepted that the media gains by printing pictures of cricketers, the media too could also demand that it be paid a portion of the sponsorship money by the BCCI for providing the audience.

If the BCCI sticks to its current stance of making media pay for the images, the consequences will be bad for both the sides. Small newspapers that struggle to keep their head above water will be forced to reduce visual coverage to keep costs in check. That would reduce the popularity of the game and hurt particularly in the small towns – the very areas from which Indian cricket has of late been tapping talent.

The other media companies, too, would then be justified in demanding that either the BCCI shares its sponsorship revenues with them or else they would start blurring out sponsors logos from images, which would obviously mean the sponsors would be willing to pay BCCI much less than they would otherwise have done – that is, if they come forward at all to sponsor BCCI events.

All this debate can be made irrelevant if the BCCI recognizes that sports associations and media have a win-win relationship that works to their mutual advantage and to the advantage of the fans. Rather than let its greed run amok, the BCCI should stick to the earthy dictum: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

Symonds lights the fuse for boycott

WITH Indian officials attempting to defuse Greg Chappell’s claims of a racially motivated cover-up, Andrew Symonds yesterday added to subcontinental tensions when he questioned touring neighbouring Pakistan because of terrorist attacks.

Andrew Symonds throws himself at a catch. Picture: James Kerr

The all-rounder, who was the victim of racial abuse on Australia’s one-day tour of India last month, was clearly concerned about bombs going off.

While the Queenslander appeared to be half-joking during a media conference at Bellerive Oval in Hobart, his reaction underlines doubts over whether Australia will make its three-Test tour to Pakistan in March.

Pakistan is in a state of emergency and national elections are due early next year, before the tour, around the time Cricket Australia will make a pre-tour safety inspection.

“There do seem to be a lot of bombs going off over there,” Symonds said as Australia prepared for the second Test against Sri Lanka which starts tomorrow.

“At the end of the day it is only a game of cricket.

“But I suppose being the diplomat that I am, we are going to have to wait and see when we get closer to the time how many bombs are going off over there. But it is being bombed.”

Australia’s three-Test tour of Pakistan in 2002-03 was moved to Colombo and Sharjah because of security issues.

Australian Cricketers Association chief Paul Marsh also said there were concerns.

“But we’re just going to have to wait and see what the result of the election is in early January and how things pan out from there,” Marsh said.

Cricket Australia spokesman Peter Young said the situation would be assessed in January.

“We’re not going to be anywhere near danger and we have moved a previous Pakistan tour,” Young said. “But we’ll have a look at that situation and go through that normal process with Cricket Australia, the ACA and the Australian government.”

There was little normal in Indian cricket yesterday as officials desperately tried to fend off sensational claims from Chappell that the Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) attempted to cover up the seriousness of an assault on him while he was coaching the country in January.

Chappell was hit and pushed by a disgruntled fan as the team arrived in Bhubaneswar, in the eastern state of Orissa, to play a one-day international against the West Indies in January.

He makes the claim of racism following the incident in a documentary, Guru Greg, which airs on ABC television next Thursday.

“As I said to the BCCI in a letter, had it been one of the players who was attacked there would have been an outcry, but because it was me no-one seemed to care,” Chappell told The Australian.

“The reply came back talking about my racist comments.

“It was quite obvious it was a serious assault. It wasn’t just a push in the back as the media was led to believe. There was a cover-up. Everyone went into cover-up mode. The whole thing was played down. The only phone call I got from the BCCI asked me whether it really happened.”

BCCI vice-president Lalit Modi denied the board was racist and did not want to discuss the incident.

“That documentary is a thing of the past,” Modi said last night. “We have left it all behind us.

“Greg is now working with the Rajasthan Cricket Association.

“We have all moved on. I have nothing more to say than that.”

Modi also denied that Chappell’s claims, following on from the racial abuse Symonds suffered in the form of monkey chants in the last three games of the seven-match one-day series, suggested a pattern of racism in the country.

“No, I don’t agree with that,” he said. “These are stray incidents that have happened. They happen to many people across the world. That is not the sentiment shared by the board or the people here involved in the game of cricket. We don’t endorse anything like that at all. We have absolutely zero tolerance on racism. Absolutely zero tolerance.

“It was sad that people reacted the way they did (to Symonds) and we at the BCCI took a very strong stance.”

While the Australians will be bemused to see Modi’s claim that the BCCI did all it could when it ignored the issue until an Australian photographer provided photographic evidence, Modi claimed the BCCI and Cricket Australia were close on the issue.

“Cricket Australia is on the same page we are. There may be stray incidents but we hope there are not,” he said.

India old and selfish, says former coach Greg Chappell

MANY of India’s cricket superstars are well past their best and need to be replaced by fresh faces for the coming tour of Australia, former coach Greg Chappell has warned.

Chappell’s honest opinion has poured cold water on the hopes of many cricket fans that the Indians would provide a more competitive series against the Australians in an already dull summer of cricket.

The legendary Australian batsman and ex-captain has been publicly critical of India’s reluctance to embrace a youth policy, but is likely to be ignored — again — today when the selectors show their hand.

Having installed 37-year-old spin bowler Anil Kumble as captain, they look certain to extend the careers of star batsmen Sachin Tendulkar, 34, Sarouv Ganguly, 35, Rahul Dravid, 34, VVS Laxman, 33, and perhaps Virender Sehwag, 29.

Spinner Harbhajan Singh, 27, who was dropped from the recent successful tour of England, will be recalled, while pace bowler Zaheer Khan, 29, will continue on.

The squad about to be announced is for a three-Test series against Pakistan, but it is unlikely any of the big names will be missing when the team arrives here.

Chappell said yesterday that they would “find it hard in Australian conditions against a committed opposition” — in other words, he expects them to be well-beaten.

It is a depressing thought for anyone hoping for a more competitive series than Sri Lanka has been able to provide so far.

Chappell, who is at the centre of a storm in India over his claims this week that an assault in an airport might have been racially motivated, is no fan of the administration and selection systems after two tumultuous years as coach.

He was reluctant to pour fuel on the fire yesterday, but sources have told the Herald Sun that he believes a culture of political back-scratching is partly to blame for the reluctance to address the problem of a group of selfish, fading stars growing old together.

The princely Ganguly, a former captain who has often been seen as a law to himself, appears to have won a battle of wills and influence with Chappell, who has accused him of sabotage from within.

The unhappy — even poisonous — nature of their relationship is revealed in Guru Greg, a candid and absorbing documentary about Chappell’s incumbency which will be aired on ABC TV next Thursday.

Chappell says in it that although Ganguly’s support was probably one reason why he got the job, he told him to quit the captaincy and concentrate on his batting so that his career might be saved.

“He decided he didn’t like that advice and started working against me,” Chappell says.

Ganguly was dropped at one stage — leading to effigies of Chappell being burned — and then re-instated without consultation with the coach.

The documentary does not quite capture the full depth of the ensuing breakdown in the relationship, with Ganguly believed to have recruited other players to resist Chappell’s attempts to instil badly-needed discipline.

Chappell says Ganguly may have thought, as is common in India, that if you do someone a favour they owe you for life — but that wasn’t how the Australian saw it.

In the documentary, Chappell hints strongly at an attitude problem, especially at training. “If you waste any more time in the nets I’ll scream,” he says at one point.

The reality, according to others who know, is that he could scarcely believe the lack of professionalism in terms of preparing for matches.

Coming from the Australian system — Chappell was previously coach of South Australia — he was unprepared for it.

When he first arrived, he was able to select younger players without interference, but came to realise that a new administration was more intent on shoring up its power bases than worrying about what went on out on the field.

But when these officials eventually needed to be re-elected, favours were called in and selections began to look as if they were being compromised by the need to look after vested interests in high places — especially sponsors.

While that isn’t spelled out in the documentary, Chappell’s frustration at not being able to introduce fresh blood is.

He says he was given the wrong team for the World Cup, which all of India believed they were destined to win.

It was too old and was promptly beaten by a much younger Bangladesh in a massive upset and failed to progress past the first round. On return, Chappell resigned.

“We came here with a flawed group and got the results we deserved,” he said.

“If there is not an intention of change, there’s no point in me — or any other coaches, for that matter — getting involved.

“It’s very difficult to keep putting wallpaper over the cracks. The cracks have got big and the structure needs to be dealt with.”

Chappell said his attempts to get young legs and arms into the team “were actively resisted from within the team”.

Ironically, India triumphed in its most recent international engagement, the Twenty20 World Cup in South Africa — with a young team.

During his stay, Chappell was punched in the head at the airport, his wife Judy was pushed over and he was sued for defamation by the national Parliament — although a judge quickly threw out the writ.

But despite the disillusionment and the many frustrations, he is still trying to help a nation in which cricket is treated like a religion.

He and long-term off-sider, former Victorian batsman Ian Frazer, have accepted a three-year job with the Rajasthan association, coaching teens.

The president there, Lalit Modi, is also vice-president of the BCCI, and was one official who was impressed by their work with the national team.

“He’s got a bit of a vision for the future,” says Chappell.

“It may become the forerunner of restructuring Indian cricket. That’s the challenge we’ve taken on. If they give us a free hand, which they are, I think we can set something up that will help them.”

Match crucial but India confident, says Uthappa

Terming the fourth cricket one-dayer as a “crucial” match, middle order batsman Robin Uthappa said a confident India would like to clinch the series against Pakistan here tomorrow.

Uthappa said the match could go either way but the Indians were deriving confidence from the fact that they again snatched the lead at Kanpur and their morale was high for tomorrow’s day-night clash at the Captain Roop Singh Stadium.

“I think it is a huge confidence ahead of the fourth one-dayer. The last two games could have been gone either way and we did well to come back in Kanpur after the Mohali game. The team’s morale is pretty high and we are looking forward to the match,” he told reporters on the eve of the match.

Asked if the players were under pressure to wrap up the series against the arch-rivals, the Karnataka batsman said the challenge would bring out the best of the team.

“Pressure is good in any format of the game. Against Australia it brought the best out of us and made us ready for this series. There is pressure in this series as well, as it still can go either way. But we are confident of doing well, as we are on top of our game,” he said.

Uthappa refused to agree that the ongoing India-Pakistan series was lacking in intensity.

“I can promise that nothing has taken out the punch from an Indo-Pak series. It is still intense and still hostile as it used to be on the field. We still play it tough on the field.”

Uthappa supported the rotation policy being adopted in the team, saying “a lot of cricket is being played these days and obviously you need to take some time off from it. A fast bowler runs almost 12 km a during one match. You body needs to recover from that stress and workload. We certainly need some rest because we have been playing a lot of cricket in the last six months or so.”

Asked about his favourite position in the batting order, Uthappa said he would play at any spot the team wanted him to bat.

“As long as I am contributing to the team’s cause, it does not matter to me where I am batting. I can bat anywhere.”

Team manager Lalchand Rajput said the team would play to win the series but the final XI was yet to be decided.

“Our aim is to win the series. If we can finish the task here on the morrow, it will be great. We will decide the playing XI later, after assessing all the factors,” he said.

Rajput said it was a high-scoring track and dew would be a factor as the match would be played under floodlights.

“The pitch is good and we think the game would be a high-scoring one. There will be the dew factor in the second session like it had happened in Mohali,” he said.